Keynotes by Casago

Speaker: Hey, welcome to keynotes.

I'm your host, Steve Schwab, the
only podcast for Casago Homeowners.

Today we're talking to my friend
Andrew Mitchell, the founder of

Wheelhouse, about his take of only
on revenue management, but on how

it applies to being owner centric.

Andrew, welcome to the show.

Great to be here.

Excited to dive in.

Yeah.

Great to have you.

So we've just spent a couple
days, uh, where you flew in with

one of your teammates, Amber.

Mm-hmm.

And really worked on making sure we were
well aligned on our go forward with the

partnership between Wheelhouse and Casago.

Speaker 2: That's right.

Yeah.

Two excellent days of engaging with
you and other teammates here and,

and really looking at that future
of when, when you apply the term

owner centric to revenue management.

What does that mean and how can we
deliver something to, to your owners and

to your teammates that is, uh, really
exceptional and kind of best in class

Speaker: here.

, Andrew, before we get started going
down the path of, , our partnership

and how we're thinking about it and
the alignments that we have, I'd like

everybody to get to know you a little bit.

, I've come to know you and always
grateful when I see your attitude, uh,

the way you work with everybody, just.

The entire way that you
just conduct yourself.

And I'm really proud to be your friend.

I'd like everybody to know a little
bit about you and get , a clear

understanding of who you are.

Can you tell us a little about, , how
you got here, how you got started in

the business, and where Wheelhouse is
going and maybe even what it is today?

Speaker 2: Appreciate that Steve.

Uh, obviously a friendship
is two directions.

Grateful to be here with you, grateful
to be building with you and your team.

Uh, super exciting opportunity
that we have ahead of us.

Wheelhouse, , today, um, we are
a company of about 30 folks.

We're spread across many markets and
we serve a bunch of teams, about 6,000

businesses in 140 countries worldwide.

And our goal is to bring transparency
and control to people around, in

particular, um, the revenue or the
performance , of their short term

rental, vacation rental properties.

Getting here has been a fun
journey of entrepreneurship, right?

How many fun ups and downs have
we both had in building the

businesses that we have today?

But, uh, I first first started looking
at this category and this technology

about 12 years ago, um, founded
another company called Beyond Pricing.

That, which was really trying to answer
this question of could we use data to look

at all these unique properties out there
and figure out how to price them better

based on oral source of demand signals in
wheelhouse, which is, uh, I started about

two years after founding that business.

Was a deeper dive into kind of maybe
a different type of data science and

how it could be applied to that same
problem set, but ultimately looking at

about how to take a unique asset and
understand what it's worth on any day.

. And when you

Speaker: say a unique asset, you
mean somebody's vacation home, right?

Speaker 2: It is, that's the
fun part about our space, right?

When you look at all these
individual properties, owners,

owners have properties.

We are often helping price both an
asset, so something you wanna make

some money off of, but also a, a
important part of your family's story.

And it turns out that when you look
across the dimensions, there are a lot

of different considerations that people
have of how they want to price their

home or dates they want to protect, or
minimum prices they wanna put in place.

There's a huge amount of dimension that
people bring to the pricing strategy.

So when you think about wheelhouse.

Our job is to look at all the data
near your home and help price that

asset well, but also be able to
adjust those prices around strategy

or risk that you want to pursue.

So it's a, it's a data science challenge.

It's a design challenge and
ultimately it's a service challenge.

'cause we need to be able to help
people make better decisions through.

Great display of visual
information controls that help

them, achieve their goals.

And ultimately, um, inability to,
if you're in the, the shoes of

a, a revenue manager, communicate
with owners and make sure that

the owner understands what Casago.

doing to, to maximize the value of their
asset while protecting that family home.

Esteban: We're looking for a way
to maximize the value of a given

night for a homeowner to get the
best price against their asset.

Is that a good way to think about it?

Speaker 2: It is.

And the part that makes it fun and, and
why I started with a unique asset is.

Each of these homes has, they
might have a porch, a pool, a

patio, , parking, pet policy.

All those have different
values to different travelers.

Mm-hmm.

Your pool is worth more on the 4th
of July than it is on January 4th.

Right.

At least in the northern hemisphere.

, So that's, part of the
unique nature of all this.

And of course, who you're targeting
if you have, uh, mostly families

coming into your place, or mostly
couples coming into your place.

There's a lot of different aspects that
make it so This is not like pricing

a hotel room or an airline seat.

This is pricing a really unique asset
and , looking at the future, well what

take it, take any day for the next 590?

It's like, how should it be priced in
order to maximize your expected revenue?

It's a really interesting
data science challenge.

Speaker: As you and I have spent
time together over the years,

uh, we met at a conference, you
know, hit it off immediately

from the very first time we met.

Started talking about, , finding the
best way to serve homeowners, to make

sure that they have the information
they need to see that we're making good

decisions or help us make good decisions.

We started talking around these words,
owner centric revenue management.

Yeah.

Our orange credo, for those who
don't know that we talk about

every single day at Casago.

You know, the very first line of
it is, I am the owner's advocate

and I'll make all decisions
based on the owner's best behalf.

Right?

And so when I think about those
words and how we're applying,

making great decisions.

For the homeowner.

What does that mean when it
comes to being owner centric and

revenue management put together?

Speaker 2: Yeah.

The way we think about it is how do
you empower the owner to understand

what you're doing around pricing
strategy, or even to have an

impact on that pricing strategy?

We've talked a little bit
about data science and pricing.

Those can be pretty complex things, right?

Wheelhouse has machine learning
models that are running to try to

understand the value of your house.

That's not really what
we're talking about here.

To us, owner centric revenue management
looks like an owner is informed about

how their market's performing, how
competitors are performing, adjustments

they might want to make to their property.

They can be as hands-on or hands
off if they, if they want to, but

if they want to come in, look at
the how their homes performing.

It needs to be really easy for the
owner to understand what's being

done to their, to their home.

So we think o Owner centric
Revenue Management looks like.

Making all this complex stuff
that we've been talking about.

Very easy to understand, very visual.

Again, if you wanna come in and see how
your home is performing against how you

did last year, similar assets, et cetera,
that should be a very easy thing to do.

And we also think that the people
that homeowners interact with

should be able to, if you wanna
adjust some aspect of your strategy,

minimum price, minimum stays.

That shouldn't be a complicated thing
that should be accomplished in a second.

It should be something that, again, you
can play a role in, you'll understand

the impact of that decision, but
ultimately it's a collaboration around

how you want your home to be managed
and how you want your home to be priced.

Esteban: With all this in mind,
Casago and Wheelhouse has decided

to Partner . You're going to be
the, uh, Revenue Management Platform

for Casago, and within that Vacsa.

And really try to help us bring forward
a new era with the revenue management

team that we have and empower them.

And I often think a lot about,
a price, say of $500, right?

If a homeowner sees a price of
$500 for the night, that price can

be either a hero price or a zero
price when it comes to, , what the

homeowner's expectation is, right?

So.

Homeowner might say, Hey, you only
rented me for $500 on this night.

And to be able to tell a homeowner, you
know, yes, that looks like a zero because

you were expecting more, but it's actually
a hero price because if I can show you

the data within your competitors, only
half of them booked and the half that did

book actually booked for less than $500.

Maybe they booked for
$400, . So suddenly.

$500.

Same event, same price, same night,
goes from us as , a company looking like

we've failed, , the zero, so to say,
to going to hero that we're actually

performing well for that homeowner and
within that market set is happening.

I think that's really important when
we think about making sense of what's

going on within a market and our team be
being able to have a conversation that

actually has value to those homeowners.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

I mean, Casago's mantra for what
25 years has been owner centric.

Speaker: Yep.

Speaker 2: Right.

All we're doing at this point is
saying, cool, how do you apply?

Apply an owner centric lens to revenue
management, and I think what you

all are, are gonna bring to this is.

Revenue management systems
historically have been built

for revenue management teams.

They're complicated systems.

They're big and bulky, but what
we really want to do with owner

centric is to empower your owners
in a way that no other system does.

So, yes, whether the booking in, you
need to add some context to that.

Usually.

More importantly, we're looking
at future nights, so like, hey,

we, we have you priced at $500.

Mm-hmm.

Let's understand whether that's
the right decision for you.

So we can easily show you that at that
$500 price, you're at the highest end of

the market and the market's not booking.

Or we can show you, hey, we
brought your price up to $600.

'cause the market started
booking a couple days ago.

Speaker: Right,

Speaker 2: right.

So context is, power.

And I think we are designing
systems so that you all can have

a better dialogue around how you
want your asset to be priced.

And that might sound really simple.

But it is new.

So that , starting with the premise
of what would owner centric look like.

It means that yes, we serve revenue
managers, we serve property managers,

but , the ask you have given to us is
you want us to make sure that your owners

are the most empowered owners out there.

. Speaker: And that's exactly
what we talked about.

, Andrew, when I asked you to sit down with
me and do a podcast so our homeowners

can understand what we're doing here, you
gave me four points you wanted to cover.

I think we've covered number one already
with context around making sure homeowners

understand what we're doing, how we're
doing it, how we're coming to these

decisions, and being able to see that.

And then for number two, you said
increased speed to resolution?

Speaker 2: Yes.

Let's talk about that.

Yeah.

Every owner has a right to
reach out to you at any point.

Mm-hmm.

And ask you about either
ask for justification of how

their home is being priced.

Or to say, you know what I, I want,
I'm not comfortable with X, Y, or Z.

I want to increase my minimum price for
the 4th of July, or whatever it may be.

Historically, when owners have called
into to many operators there, there

haven't been very clear answers
about why the price is a particular

way or maybe they said, Hey, we'll
take care of that down the road.

What we're doing right now is we're taking
the Vacsa and Casago teammates and we're

training 500 people at the same time.

Who are all gonna be able to answer
your questions much more quickly.

If you have a question about a
price, they're gonna be able to

show you some of this context.

We're talking about how the market
looks, how a comp set looks, how you

price last year, , what is, what are
the demand signals showing us today?

So a many teammates will be able
to help you immediately with that.

And if you decide you
wanna change something.

They'll be able to do it on that call.

Mm-hmm.

So that's what we're moving toward.

We're moving toward an instant re
resolution platform that look at the

end of the day, it's, it's your asset
and you're working with Casago to

maximize the value of it and to Yes.

Resolve problems quickly.

Uh, we are basically creating,
uh, training your team, Steve,

your team, in a much more visual
way to communicate price signal.

Pricing decisions and also for
the homeowner to say, I can see

that and I still wanna do X, Y,
or Z, and solve that right there.

So we think that's valuable.

Speaker: You know, as we're going from
a very centralized model with Vacsa to

this decentralized model, , with Casago,
uh, one thing that's a big change for the

organization is making sure to empower
the people at the local level, right?

And so when a homeowner calls one
of their local representatives.

Being able to give that representative
the knowledge and the tools and

the empowerment to be able to
have a conversation, , and talk

about like, well, here's what
I'm seeing in the pricing system.

Yes, I can make that change for you.

Yeah, here's some context to it.

And if it gives me on their skillset,
being able to give them the next

level of support, but being able
to have intelligent conversations

about what they're doing, why
we're doing it, what we're seeing.

It's just a lot less frustrating for a
homeowner to be able to have somebody

on the ground who understands the
fundamentals of what we're doing and is

able to look into the system and make
some adjustments, uh, as needed so that

we can get back to the homeowner with
real results without having to wait for.

You know, days or trying to channel
change them, channel changing

meaning like we gotta switch them
to another person to talk to.

Mm-hmm.

I just think it's a much better
environment for that homeowner.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

It's a little bit about alignment.

Like look, at the end of the day,
the homeowner probably wants to

make more money from their home.

And guess what, at the end of
the day, Casago go dose too.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker 2: But that still means making
decisions and, and sometimes trade offs.

So sometimes you might come
in and disagree with a price.

If you wanna change the price up by
20%, or you think you're not booking

fast enough, so you wanna bring some
prices down across your portfolio.

Well, our job is to show you
the impact of that decision.

You still might accept that decision.

Yeah, but we need to be able to
communicate, Hey, if your minimum price

is $300 a night, that that will probably
impact your expected revenue in some ways.

Or it could.

Or if you're often hitting your
minimum price during low season, you

probably want to hear from Casago
or someone like, Hey, we think if we

drop that minimum price to two 50.

We can bring in some more revenue
for you during this low season.

Is that the right decision for you?

So the interplay here that's really
interesting is we've been lucky to

work with the, the revenue managers
here at Casago for a long time.

It is a really good dedicated team
who wants to serve people fast.

Mm-hmm.

And we are training, obviously 500
ops teammates too, who are so excited

'cause they're like, oh, finally we can
go right to our owners with answers.

With solutions, et cetera.

So I think the fun part that on this
design paradigm has brought to all

of us here is we are feeling very
optimistic that we can deliver on

this premise of owner centric revenue
management first quickly and then

completely over the coming months.

. Speaker: So speaking of design,
, leads us right into number three.

We're building a one of a kind
dashboard with wheelhouse where

homeowners are able to see.

A lot of information that's gonna be
able to answer questions in real time.

Can you expand on that?

What does that look like?

, Speaker 2: We're looking
at delivery mechanisms.

So how can we get right into where
your owners wanna see this information?

Mm-hmm.

Is it in their email or some other place?

A portal or whatever it may be.

But, , we're really thinking about
those delivery mechanisms so we fit

seamlessly into your owners' lives.

So an effective dashboard helps you
get quickly back to what you need to

be doing with the rest of your day.

So dashboard will tell you
how are you performing?

It will tell you how you're
performing potentially year over year

versus competitors versus market.

But a good dashboard should
capture that word, dash.

It's simple, it's easy, you look at it
and you know you're being taken care of.

I think the second part behind it
is if you do have a question about

something you see in the dashboard,
how easy is it for you to go get an

answer to understand the why behind it?

So we think of dashboard design as how
quickly can we hopefully in a few seconds,

ensure that you know your home's being
taken care of and is doing well revenue

wise, and if you want to learn more,
make it easy for you to go get to those

bits of information that might be able
to add context to that performance.

. You know, between

Esteban: building this.

Dashboard, giving our homeowners access to
it in, and then for whatever information

they need beyond that, training 500
people , , within the ecosystem to be

able to answer even more questions.

I just think that the experience our
homeowners are going to have at the

end of this project is going to be.

, 180 degrees from where we've been
and , we're gonna be able to fix

the frustrations of people not
being able to get back to 'em.

Because the truth is, , you have to
have enough people to have bandwidth,

to be able to have conversations.

Right?

And you have to be able to give them
information so they don't have to always

go to people first if they don't want to

. And I think that the convenience
of the information at their

fingertips digitally and then.

A army of people who can
answer questions for 'em.

I think of it as a complete change
step in what has been offered and what

Casago goes go forward will be thinking
about how the owner centric model

plays into making sure we're taking
care of our homeowners and giving them

that transparency that they deserve.

Speaker 2: Yeah, and to just name it.

All the folks who worked with Casago
for the last many years know how serious

you are about being owner centric and
taking care of folks and the Vacsa folks

who are now coming into your portfolio.

These homeowners, I think they, I
think my message for them , would

be actually relatively simple.

I've been building pricing and revenue
management systems for 12 years.

I founded two of the three
major companies in the category

beyond pricing and wheelhouse.

Our teams have won multiple design
and product wars over the years.

No team until you all came to
me and said, we wanna deliver

owner centric revenue management.

That has never been the design
challenge that someone has given to us.

We've had people say they
want our system to run faster.

A revenue manager wanted this
knob or dial, and we've done a

great job of delivering on that.

But again, over hundreds or thousands
of conversations, you have brought

this design principle of go to
the owners and empower the owners.

So when it's 180 degrees.

I would argue it's just
the new paradigm mm-hmm.

That you're focused on.

And since we're gonna deliver it with you
to the owners, like if you've ever had a

challenge around some of the pricing or
revenue strategies in the past, like just

know that you have a software team and a
leadership team at Casago who is taking

time to really invest in, in what will
look like fundamentally new capabilities.

, And we take that.

We take this challenge seriously.

Esteban: I think that our thought
process and what we're gonna be

able to bring to our homeowners.

Is going to evolve 'cause like you and
I were talking about earlier, okay.

We understand what our goal is.

We understand the paradigm that
we're, , we're taking forward as we make

decisions and uncover opportunities.

I think that the dashboard we initially
deliver, , will be, you know, on point.

But I think that we'll find opportunities
along the way to build something,

uh, that's really meaningful.

With new innovations as we, , as we
find, , opportunities to , provide

additional value to homeowners.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

The truth is no two owners are alike.

Right, right.

And even if they're more alike,
well they, you know, owners change

over time and goals change over
time as, as people's lives evolve.

So the challenge is how do you make a
dashboard that speaks to each owner?

Mm-hmm.

At wheelhouse from a data science
perspective, we like to say, well,

there's the right way to price a home.

You can look at demand signals and
booking patterns and say there's

a right way to price a home.

But in truth, you kind of know after,
unfortunately, the dates have passed.

After all the market has has booked.

But there are many rational ways
to price a home, and one owner

might wanna listen to prior
booking history a little bit more.

One might wanna listen to
the future a little bit more.

One might wanna look at just a few
competitors near their property and

really strategize against those.

So there are many rational ways to price
a home and a system like Wheelhouse

isn't a blunt, Hey, here's your owner
dashboard and here's how you price,

it's how do you wanna price, how do
you wanna handle this going forward?

And great.

Let's make that easy.

Esteban: The entire company is built on a
one relationship with one owner at a time.

When we speak to our owners, they have
wants and needs and goals that are

individual and unique . and you can't
treat them all with the same strategy

you have to be able to customize
what you're doing to meet that

homeowners goals with that property.

Right?

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Esteban: I think that we
are bringing that forward.

With some of , the settings and the
ability to adjust how aggressive

you're gonna be or how you want to
maybe have a bias towards, , your

nightly rate or towards occupancy.

I think these are all parts and pieces of
how we end up getting to our goal of being

able to serve that individual relationship
and their goals one at a time.

Yes.

Andrew, for number four,
you put empowerment.

Speaker 2: All of it is about empowerment.

And empowerment in my mind comes from,
in our minds, comes from transparency.

So can you see information
about how you're being priced?

It's about control.

Can you make a decision right there
about a change you wanna make?

And it's about a dialogue.

It's about communicating, right?

So I think the goal of our system is to
make it easy to talk about these things.

Easy to make a decision and easy
to make sure that your homes

manage exactly as you please.

Esteban: Yeah, something I've been
saying for a long time is that revenue

measurement is a team sport, and just like
on a football team, everybody has to be

able to play their part and contribute,
and without having each person within

that ecosystem, the homeowner, the local
representative, the gm, the analyst, the

revenue manager, everybody has a different
viewpoint and a different part to play.

And I think making sure that we're
empowering the team across each and

every position really matters, right?

The homeowner is part of the team
when it comes to revenue management.

What are your goals?

How are you thinking about how you want
your property to be priced and managed?

The team on the front line needs to be
able to speak to that homeowner and have

a meaningful conversation with them.

The general manager needs to be able
to help along with more complex issues.

The analyst needs to be able to have
data and an understanding of each

and every property one by one, right?

Mm-hmm.

You know, we get up to the senior
revenue manager who's looking at macro

issues like, how's this market doing?

What's affecting pricing and pacing?

Mm-hmm.

So we all have a role to play.

I think that the empowerment comes
by being able to train our teams, be

able to give homeowners more context.

To provide this ecosystem to
really drive better results for our

homeowners at the end of the day.

Speaker 2: You know what I
appreciate about that too.

You all are putting your
money where your mouth is.

I mentioned we're training 500
people across the Casago right now.

It's not that you said, Hey, wheelhouse,
we wanna work with you and train up

10 or 20 of our revenue managers.

You said we're gonna make sure that
all of our teammates can speak to

owners better and more concretely
about their pricing strategy.

Your team is a group that is eager to
learn, eager to help, eager to serve.

And it's really been interesting
to watch them kind of as they've

gotten to use the system, start to
say, well, thank goodness, 'cause

I can now serve my owners better.

Mm-hmm.

So I think it's not, uh, this
isn't a long change coming.

This training is happening now.

We'll have every single teammate
across Casago who's gonna

be interacting with owners.

Everyone will be trained by,
at worst, September 15th.

That's seven weeks from now and that,
that training started a while ago.

So we have just a deep commitment
to training and education.

It's about empowering you and and owners.

You'll be able to talk to people
who will be able to show you real

wired decisions are being made,
make changes with you, et cetera.

So the most fun part about this
conversation happening now is, this isn't

a huge hypothetical, it's No, this is
happening now and you're about to see it.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

You know, it,

Speaker: it comes down to great people.

And by the way.

Teams at Vacsa.

There are really great people there.

Awesome people.

Yeah, great training.

'cause you have to give your
great people the, the skill sets

to be able to be successful.

Uh, you have to give them great tools.

That's where wheelhouse steps in
with a system that gives us a lot

more visibility than we've ever had.

And then great values.

How do we apply all that through
leadership to make sure that

we're heading in a direction.

That we all can get behind, right?

Mm-hmm.

And I think that's where our
partnership really aligns well.

Yeah.

So, Andrew, before we go, I'm
gonna ask you one last question.

Um, we've talked a little bit about
it on the podcast, our orange credo.

We have six different pillars
within that orange credo.

Which one's your favorite excellence?

Why is it excellence?

Speaker 2: Because it's
such an interesting word

and I think excellence is.

Something that our organization
strives for really deeply.

I mean, one of our, one of our, one of our
team's mottos, is Excellence Everywhere.

We believe that everything
you do is important.

That phone call you have, that
email you send all the way up to the

strategy and the, the effort you put
in to everything is really important.

And, and our team, uh, strives
collectively towards excellence.

But.

Excellence is a team sport.

Uh, in this case, excellence means
listening to owners, listening to

Casago, listening to your teammates,
and seeing how we can show up to

serve that in a really bespoke manner.

I think, uh, at Wheelhouse we're
interested in doing things in that are

unique, that are beneficial to others.

That, and that set kind of a, a
standard for the type of software that

we think all of our customers, whether
it's owners or property managers

or revenue managers, deserve So.

Excellence is the motto that, uh, I
believe in, that our team believes in.

And I was pumped to, I was excited to
read about it in, in the Credo as well.

Speaker: Yeah, it's, it's
another one of our alignments.

, When I think of excellence, somebody
asks, why not perfection said, because

you'll exhaust yourself in perfection.

You'll never get their excellence is
something you can actually achieve.

And my definition of excellence
personally is if I can look at what

I've, I've done and be proud of it.

You know, you know in your gut when
something isn't right and that you're

not proud of, and that's not excellence.

I think that when I can look at
something and say, I'm really proud

of the work I did, it may not be
perfect, but it was excellent and I

think that's a achievable goal and
I think we're well aligned on that.

A hundred percent.

Andrew, thanks so much for coming on.

To all of our homeowners.

Thanks for listening.

We're really looking forward to
providing, , new tools, better training

empowered teams for you, and driving a
lot more valuable of a service for you.

Thanks again for listening.

Have a great day.